Learning to Grieve, Reflect, and Grow with Dr. Brian Humphreys

Podcast
Written By CortneyJo Sandidge

Show Notes

On this episode of the I Am M.U.C.H. Woman, CortneyJo welcomes her therapist, Dr. Brian Humphreys on the show to discuss her journey and the importance of seeking out counseling. A clinical psychologist with 30+ years of experience, Brian shares his passion for grief therapy and supporting millennials. CortneyJo reflects on her personal growth, crediting Brian’s patient, supportive approach for helping her navigate life’s challenges with wisdom and faith. They discuss the importance of finding the right therapist, the M.U.C.H. Woman ethos, and how curiosity—not shame—drives transformation.

Episode Highlights:
(1:27) How Brian and CortneyJo met

(3:05) Why Dr. Brian Humphreys enjoys working with millennials

(7:12) Dr. Humphrey’s approach to psychologist

(11:31) How Brian was able to gently help CortneyJo course-correct

(16:46) Changes Dr. Brian Humphreys has seen in CortneyJo

(21:22) CortneyJo’s experience with a therapist before Dr. Humphreys

(26:02) What being a MUCH Woman means for Brian

(34:41) How the women in Dr. Brian Humphrey’s life embody the MUCH Woman

Links Referenced

Transcript

Brian: You know, what we’re looking for is—I’ll go back to therapy, but it applies to any key relationship, is living lovingly in truth. You know, a lot of Christians like to quote Ephesians 4:15 about, “Speak the truth in love,” and that’s what it says, but all commentators will tell you that that’s an under-translation. The word there translated ‘speak the truth’ means to be true, to live true.

CortneyJo: Welcome to the I Am MUCH Woman podcast, where we inspire and guide women to deepen their personal relationship with God and grow in their understanding of His Word. Hello, MUCH Woman podcast family. Welcome to episode 7. I am so glad you are here with us today because this episode is extra special to me. I am deeply honored to have my personal therapist, Dr. Brian Humphreys, joining us on the podcast.

And let me tell you, he is one of my absolute favorite people in my life. Favorite. Do you hear me? He is my favorite. Brian, thank you so much for being here today, and it’s even more special because today is your birthday.

Brian: That’s true.

CortneyJo: Happy birthday.

Brian: Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

CortneyJo: Happy birthday. Before we dive in, let me share a little bit more about Brian and how our paths crossed. Dr. Humphries is a clinical psychologist based here in Knoxville, Tennessee with over 30 years of experience in private practice. He especially enjoys working with millennials—yay, that’s me—and his approach is highly relational and interpersonal.

When we first met a little over three years ago now, I was grieving the end of my 12-year marriage. I vividly remember stepping into his office, grateful to even be there after being added to his infamous waiting list. And I just was feeling so lost and confused, and deeply hurt. I was searching for clarity and a way to move forward. From the very beginning, Brian came alongside me with such kindness and wisdom, helping me to steady my ship, stay true to my values, and grow into the woman I am today: a woman who understands how to care for herself with knowledge, understanding, and healthy boundaries.

Each session began with Brian’s incredible prayers. And I’ve always said we need to record those prayers, Brian, so that someone can just press play and feel encouraged. Brian, thank you so much for all that you’ve done for me and thank you so much for being here today.

Brian: I’m thrilled to be here today. I’m really happy about this. Excited.

CortneyJo: Thank you. Well, let’s dive right in.

Brian: Okay.

CortneyJo: So, you’ve mentioned that you enjoy working with millennials. What is it about this particular generation that draws you to them?

Brian: It’s a very easy answer. I have two children, and I think three children—all, all five of them qualify for millennials, and one child who’s kind of on the cusp of millennial and Gen Z. So, I have to throw in older Gen Zs as well. I love being a father and my kids are amazing. I’m blessed to get to be their father, and my children-in-law, I’m blessed to be their father-in-law.

And what I like about millennials in general is how open they are. Compared to my generation—Baby Boomer—they’re much more willing to speak about their emotions, men as well as women, equally so, and they’re not ashamed of getting therapy. There’s not the same stigma. They’re very open, like you are, with their friends and family, and they talk very freely that they’re in therapy. It’s not something to hide or be embarrassed about. So, I think those are the main reasons.

And I also love doing grief therapy, especially with them. I work with some wonderful women, widows, and I really enjoy working with pastors as well. But there’s a special place in my heart for clients my children’s ages.

CortneyJo: Oh, thank you. I appreciate you sharing that. That was cool to know. I love that—you’re right. Like we are more open about sharing and saying, “Hey, I’m doing some things to take care of myself.” So, let me ask you this—

Brian: I know.

CortneyJo: —about this millennial sitting in front of you [laugh]—

Brian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew where you were going [laugh].

CortneyJo: —when I first came to you, what were your initial thoughts? Did you think, “Oh boy, she needs help?”

Brian: [laugh]. I thought, well, first of all, I really pay attention to people’s nonverbals, and your whole nonverbal presentation, your posture, your expressions, they really pulled me in, and they let me know I’m an open-hearted person, I’m here, I need to receive care, and that jumped down at me. But as we talked, what stood out to me the most is your love of God. And as I was preparing for this interview, I was thinking about you, and I thought, CortneyJo came to therapy, among other things, wanting to be happier, but she was more concerned about God’s happiness than her own happiness. Meaning you wanted to pursue a life in which you wanted more happiness, and freedom, and joy, but not at the expense of grieving him in any way or going against his way or character. And that really stood out to me that his happiness meant more to you than your own happiness. And that’s rare, and I esteemed that very highly in you from the very beginning.

CortneyJo: Oh, Brian, thank you for sharing that.

Brian: You’re welcome.

CortneyJo: Okay. Kleenex and I’ll be okay. Thank you. So Brian, you know, just meeting with you was always just wonderful. You were always so inviting, and every time I came in, always so inviting, and I appreciate you always creating such a welcoming environment for me. And one of the most impactful things that you’ve done for me is just helping me put language to my story. I came in really not sure what I was going through or what I had experienced and you put language to that. And so, that clarity allowed me to better understand my past and to make healthier decisions for myself.

And I had a friend ask me recently, does your counselor firmly tell you what to do? And my response was no, you know, Brian will share, you know, that he supports a decision or, you know, that he respects a decision, which I found incredibly helpful. And not everybody’s experiences like that, Brian, where I think there are some counselors that are pushing on a certain agenda or pushing on certain things, but you never did that to me. And so, can we talk more about your approach and how you provide your perspective while leaving room for the client’s autonomy? Is there a particular goal you aim for with clients, or do you just take it session by session?

Brian: I laughed a moment ago about the friend asked me that because my family knows I’m constantly saying, “Don’t should—S-H-O-U-L-D—on people.” And they even tease me about it sometimes. I can be a little bit obsessive about not should-ing on people and telling them what to do. And you used the word autonomy. And I appreciate when you interviewed Dr. Janetta Jamerson, she said something similar about not telling her clients what to do because that takes away their autonomy.

And I really value, both inside my office and outside my office, people’s separateness, their otherness, so I don’t try to boss or manage their thoughts or feelings or actions. As a Christian, I believe—one day Jesus will tell me if I’m accurate in this—that the main, and best, and most important way for me to love people, to agape love people, is to be safe for them, that their body, soul, mind, spirits are safe. And to me, a way of being safe is not bossing people’s thoughts, and feelings, and actions. I’ve certainly come alongside people and challenged and encouraged or inquired, and things like that. I encourage all my clients to own their thoughts and feelings instead of trying to boss others, but also to be more willing to say—you know, sometimes when people talk, they say, “Well, you know when people do this, or you know, when you do that,” and I go, “Me?” “Well, no. Me.” I say, “Well, say ‘I’ then. Say ‘I do this. I do that.’”

And part of what I share with clients is, I’ll share a thought, even a recommendation, and then I let go. My favorite Christian writer was a Christian philosopher named Dallas Willard, and he’s no longer with us, and he used to say, “Don’t manage outcomes. Share with great passion, conviction, boldness, whatever, what you think, suggest, recommend, whatever, but then let go, and leave it between God and that person what happens next.” And that’s one of the most important teachings I got from him—

CortneyJo: Mmm, so good.

Brian: —years ago, and I hold on to that a lot with my clients, with people in my life at church, or my family. In terms of my approach, I’m highly relational, I’m from the school—I’m older, I was trained in the ’80s, in terms of more psychodynamic therapy, long-term therapy. I see a lot of people for many years. And I try to tailor fit therapy to every person. I don’t do off-the-rack therapy. I try to tailor fit.

And my goal for all—well, let me back up. When I say relational, I believe the best thing I offer someone is the relationship, more so than advice, books I recommend—which I do; just did this morning with someone—it’s more how I am with them. To be a healing presence is my hope and prayer. And I think about with my clients who come in—I work with non-Christians, but clients who come in like you, very committed Christians, I’m very overt that what Paul said in Galatians 4 that he wants Christ to be formed in the people he was writing the letter to. And I want to come alongside the Father to help you become more like Jesus in the inside, but more like Jesus in a CortneyJo Sandidge kind of way, not a Brian Humphries kind of way or a Priscilla Shire kind of way, or any great people out there that are wonderful, or Mother Teresa or anyone, but in a CJ kind of way. So, that’s my approach basically.

CortneyJo: Thank you so much for that approach. Like, basically, it’s like this is not self-serving at all. Like, this is really about you. But that says a lot about you, Brian, and your character and the work that you’ve allowed the Lord to do in you because that has to happen. In order to not be self-serving, you have to allow the Lord to build character in you, so thank you for that.

Brian: Well, thank you for saying that. That’s a really good insight.

CortneyJo: So, we’re going to talk a little bit about [laugh] me—

Brian: [laugh].

CortneyJo: And so, Brian, you were so kind and patient with me, even when I wasn’t making the best choices. You may remember [laugh].

Brian: I do. I do.

CortneyJo: I had a little season where I like to call it maybe a more rebellious season or I don’t know. Maybe I was exploring. I don’t know [laugh], and I was, you know, just making some decisions that weren’t in my best interest. I knew them, you knew them, but you never made me feel bad about that, and instead you gently helped me course-correct. How did you do that? Like, is that a part of your specific counseling method or your personal style? But you really did. Like, you really gently helped me course-correct. Because I was trying to justify that.

Brian: I know. I know. My philosophy in life—those who know me well have heard me say this, and sometimes even get teased over it—is to me life is a way of being with. It’s a way of being with, I think, God’s favorite preposition, and being with us. Emmanuel, God with us, and so whether it’s in therapy or outside therapy, I’m not really that different.

I think if people watch me do therapy with you or anyone else, people know me well, they’d say, “That’s Brian,” for better and for worse. I don’t think I have a real strong therapy self that’s different from my non-therapy self. Having said that, I, gentleness. I’m a big fan of that, and that word actually occurs a lot in the New Testament.

CortneyJo: Yes.

Brian: And I believe in something that a lot of therapists write about, gentle curiosity, where instead of telling someone to do, you go, “Huh. Tell me more CortneyJo. What led you to say that?” Or, “What were you thinking when that happened?” So, it’s a curiosity. And we try to inculcate in our clients a burgeoning curiosity as a hallmark of all therapy, mainly curiosity about themselves, but also about others. But to do it gently.

And even the brain studies that we have now, the brain responds negatively to harshness. I mean, literally the neurons begin to disconnect and disentangle. And that harshness can be from without; that’s pretty obvious, but also, when we’re harsh with ourselves, the brain responds the same way. So, it’s not even good for your neurons when you’re harsh. So, apart from anything else we might call the soul, which I’ll get into a little bit later, gentleness is so important.

And I think most therapists would agree with this, that unless someone is really realizing within herself what’s going on, she’s not going to change, kind of, Inside Out, like the movie. It’s important that people make the connections and really believe it deep down, not because their pastor said it, their therapist said it, their mother said it, their partner said it, but they’ve really embraced it and made it their own, that I really do believe this. And it’s not so much that my therapist does or someone else, but I really do believe that someone to act on it. And one last comment about that is shaming and guilting are terrible motivators. They don’t change people deeply. You get short-term compliance, with a child, or a spouse, or whoever, employee. It doesn’t produce lasting change. In fact, it does the opposite.

You know, what we’re looking for is—I’ll go back to therapy, but it applies to any key relationship, is living lovingly in truth. You know, a lot of Christians like to quote Ephesians 4:15 about, “Speak the truth in love,” and that’s what it says, but all commentators will tell you that that’s an under-translation. The word there translated ‘speak the truth’ means to be true, to live true, not just speak truth, which is part of it. So, we seek to live the truth humbly, open-mindedly, open-heartedly, but lovingly and graciously. And that produces change between God and us, Him towards us, and us towards others. So, I don’t motivate through guilt and shame. That’s the dead-end road.

CortneyJo: Well, I appreciate that so much. It’s making me think of the scripture—and I can’t reference it specifically; I’ll come back to it and we’ll put it in the—but it says, “It is God’s kindness that leads us to repentance.”

Brian: Romans, chapter 2.

CortneyJo: Romans, chapter 2. “It is his kindness”—

Brian: [laugh]. My wife loves that verse.

CortneyJo: Oh. “It is His kindness that leads us to repentance.” So, who is your kindness? Yeah, it is your kindness with me. It was, you were so gentle and you were so kind [laugh]. And I just remember kind of being, like, course corrected. I was like, “Okay,” you know? And I remember I sent you a text, and said, “Okay, Brian. I’ve decided to stop misbehaving.” [laugh]. And you were like, “This is for the best.” [laugh].

Brian: [laugh].

CortneyJo: So, I appreciate you for that. Another thing you’ve always done for me is you’ve helped me, you kept me honest, and I love that. And you created the safe conditions for that, but you always kept me honest by asking me, “So, is that really what you want to do?” “Well, no, it’s not what I want to do.”

Brian: What might happen if you do that?

CortneyJo: Yeah. You would always do that.

Brian: Coming alongside of you know the great preposition: coming alongside.

CortneyJo: You did, you did. And it really helped me, and it was what I needed. So, would you agree that I’m a different person now [laugh] than I was when we first started meeting?

Brian: You know, it’s interesting, you know, in thinking about your question, ‘are you different?’ I want to say yes and no. The core of who you are is the same.

CortneyJo: Yes.

Brian: Your CortneyJo-ness is the same, and that’s wonderful. And I’ll kind of getting to that a little bit later. But yes, you’ve changed in terms of—I mean, you are a different person, in that you’re definitely wiser, I would say. We talked about that a lot in therapy, that the Bible does speak a lot about wisdom. We have the wisdom literature in the Bible.

And I think you’re wiser in setting healthier boundaries. That’s a common term these days or a popular term, and you definitely do a better job with that in all key relationships, especially the ones that are particularly hurtful. You’ve learned to, in a very healthy way, much healthier than when we first met you.

CortneyJo: Yes.

Brian: We’ve talked a lot about that. Something you mentioned earlier, you’re much better at articulating what’s in your soul, your thoughts, your feelings, you can put into words. You’ve blossomed in that way. Not that you were bad at it when you came in. You’re a very bright woman, a very articulate woman, but I think it’s the more soul language is in—and I mean, your soul, not sort of theological language, but you’ve really grown in that area.

Better self-care, setting boundaries as an example. You’re definitely kinder to yourself. You know that anecdotally, in terms of research, how vital it is to grow and to mature. But you’re going to like this one because I know you. What I’ve seen in you as my sister in Christ is you know more here and here, left brain, right, brain, head, and heart, that you’re a beloved daughter of your father and a beloved friend and disciple of Jesus. And I’ve seen that deep in. And that’s my hope and prayer for every person I work with. And you definitely exemplify that.

CortneyJo: Oh, Brian. Thank you so much [clear throat]. Thank you. You’ve been just tremendous in that, you know? Everything that—I appreciate all that you just shared. But yeah, I don’t know if I could have—I wouldn’t have wanted to get to this place without you and the care and the support, and… I just wouldn’t have wanted to do that.

And so, I do hope that our interview, that this particular time together, that as people listen to this, that it does encourage people to seek out therapy, and being able to kind of make that good match, you know, someone that’s going to come alongside you and not try to tell you what to do, or you know, this is what I believe, so I think you ought to behave this way.

Brian: May I make a quick comment on this real quick?

CortneyJo: Yes, please, please, please.

Brian: For truth-telling and for fairness to therapists, I don’t think that my style of therapy is initially for everybody. Some people want short-term, fix-their-problem-solving, and I actually do some of that with EAP work with UT employees.

CortneyJo: Okay.

Brian: So, I’m not opposed to that, and there’s great value in that, and having a lot of homework, and direction, and problem-solving, and such, I have no quarrel with that at all. That’s not how I was trained, and it doesn’t really fit my personality. That approach fits people who have a different personality than I do—and it’s not a competitive thing, not better or worse—and also their training. And so, I think given those two factors, my training and my personality, the way I do it fits me.

But I get a referral, sometimes a person will say, “I want X, Y, and Z,” which is—and I’ll go, “You know, I’m not a good fit for you, but I think this person is.” And I’ll give him two or three names. And I’ll say, “This person is really good at that,” or, “He’s really good at that and I’m not.” And not just in terms of a diagnosis, but in terms of approach to therapy. So, I have no trouble with other approaches, it’s just not who and how I am. So—

CortneyJo: Right.

Brian: You and I were a good fit that way.

CortneyJo: We were a good fit. And because I did meet with a therapist before I got to you. So, I tried to—yeah, and it was a very different—

Brian: I forgot about that. Yeah.

CortneyJo: —experience. So, I do—first let me say, I really appreciate what you just shared about therapists, and just the profession, and the different trainings, and different styles, and how it can just meet different personalities. I love that. But when I—you know, I first—so, I tell this little quick story about Brian, as I mentioned earlier in the podcast that Brian has this infamous [laugh] waiting list, like, lots of people are trying to meet with Brian, and it’s a blessing. But I got put on the waiting list initially, but I started meeting with a different therapist at first, and I was being told what to do.

It was only one session. It was one session. I went in, I shared what I was going through, and what I need help and support with, the same thing I shared with you, and this therapist pulled out this book, told me I needed to read this particular book, told me I needed to get it together. That’s what she told me. “You need to get it together. You don’t have any grounds for even being talking the way you’re talking.”

Brian: Mmm. I do remember that now. Yeah.

CortneyJo: Ohh. And I’ve heard other people have shared, you know, that they have some of those experiences sometimes. And so, that’s why I’m saying whether the approach is, you know, we’re going to be short-term, we’re going to do homework, we’re going to do some, you know, worksheets and things like that, it’s just as long as no one is trying to tell someone what to do because of what they think is best.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah, what I call bossing your thoughts, and feelings, and actions. Yeah. Yeah.

CortneyJo: Exactly. Yes. After three solid years of regular sessions and, you know, I’m sad, but we’ve recently transitioned into an as-needed basis. How do you determine when a client is ready for this shift, and specifically, how did you know I was ready for this shift?

Brian: Well, obviously, in general, it’s kind of intuitive. Again, other parts of the therapy, especially through very structured, like, 12 sessions or 18, you kind of know we’re winding down. Again, that’s so different than my approach, especially since I see people for years, and—most people. And so, a lot of it’s intuitive. I usually wait for the client, in this case, it was you, to broach it.

Like, you know, talking about when shall we meet again? And you said, well, maybe we spread it out or. I mean, sometimes I will broach it, but I usually wait for the client to say, “I’m thinking maybe I can go every other week or every three or four weeks.” And then, if it resonates with me—and usually it does—I will say that.

But to be a little more concrete or specific, I think in your case, it’s because of going back to the last question. I saw you wiser, happier, less distressed, less sad, less anxious, walking in trust and faith more. So, those were all—if you want measurements, I can measure all those and point to the data, if you will. And the key thing is, as you know, there’s an open door, you can always return. And I rarely say goodbye to a client. I’ll say, “Until later,” or, “Maybe until later.”

And—I know this is true for other therapists—a lot of clients will come back to me years later, and because we have a relationship, and they’ll say, “Do you remember me?” I say, “Yes.” “And I’m just having a hard time with navigating the situation.” And they want to come back to someone they’ve have an established relationship with. So, I think the key thing is the door is always open.

CortneyJo: Thank you for that. Thank you for that. And I agree with you. Yeah, definitely stronger, wiser, feeling good. And yeah, I do miss our sessions, but I did think that it was important that, you know, that I am working to, you know… I can do this. I can do this. You know [laugh]?

Brian: Right. And you know you have a safety net. Yeah, yeah.

CortneyJo: And I have—yeah, I have a safety net just in case. So, Brian, as I mentioned earlier, you’ve been such an incredible presence in my life, not just as a counselor or a therapist, but as a friend, and in many ways, like a dad. Speaking of being dad, you have three wonderful children—

Brian: Amen.

CortneyJo: —and they are truly blessed to have you in their lives. So, our sessions, especially when we focused on parenting, were incredibly empowering for me. I always left feeling lighter, and cared for, and encouraged. Your kindness was just truly remarkable. And it wasn’t just your kindness towards me. I mean, it taught me how to be kind to myself, you know?

Brian: Yes. Yes.

CortneyJo: I would see how you were; I’m like, “Oh, I can do this.” So, the scripture that reminds me of you, I wanted to share this, is Proverbs 27:9. “The heartfelt counsel of a friend is as sweet as perfume and incense.” That verse perfectly reflects the care and the wisdom that you’ve poured into my life, and I thank you so much.

So, we’re getting ready to wrap this up, but as I do with all of my guests [laugh], I’d love to hear your thoughts on the MUCH Woman ethos. So, Brian, you were with me when I first started talking about MUCH Woman, and taking the steps to bring it to life. So, I wanted to get your thoughts on what you thought about MUCH Woman. And I’ll just remind our listeners, just in case it’s your first time listening to this, MUCH: M meaning Measured for women, for us to just be more thoughtful and deliberate and pray about our decisions before we make them; U is Unafraid, being brave and moving forward without fear; and C is Captivating, walking with our heads held high, walking with confidence; and H is Heroic, being able to make tough decisions, even in the face of difficulty. MUCH. So, I wanted to hear what you thought about when I would sharing that, when I was sharing about my vision for MUCH Woman.

Brian: Oh, I got to say this. I wanted to find a place to be able to say this. My favorite word you taught me is friendgirls.

CortneyJo: Oh [laugh].

Brian: I had never heard that term before. And you, early on, would talk about your friendgirls.

CortneyJo: My friendgirls.

Brian: And I think of you, I think of friendgirls. I thought, I got to find a way to stick that into—I mean, have it in red here because I always thought that was so fun. And I’m sure plenty of people have heard that before, but being a man in the ’60s, I wasn’t familiar with that term. So anyway.

CortneyJo: And I love how you would always say, after I taught to you the term, you would always be like, “So, what friendgirl is this?” [laugh].

Brian: Yeah, right, right, right. Exactly.

CortneyJo: Like you were into it.

Brian: Yeah, I adopted your language.

CortneyJo: Yes. I love that. “And tell me which friendgirl?”

Brian: Yeah, exactly. Because you have so many of them. I would say, I think of, when I think of MUCH Women and MUCH Woman, I think of the power of a woman’s soul. I mentioned earlier, I was going to come back to the word soul. I like to use, as much as I can, biblical language because it’s so full and life-giving.

And a lot of people know that the Greek word for soul is psyche, from which we get psychology. And so, I’m going to go with the word soul instead of the word psyche. And I think, you know, especially I think in your broadcast, while it’s for all women, I’m sure there’s sort of an emphasis of women of color, maybe even more specifically, black women, and I really have had truly, truly the privilege and the joy of working with a number of different black women in therapy because I have no clue. I mean, I’m a white man. It’s on two different fronts I don’t know what it means.

And you and others, as well as readings I’ve done, but it helped me to see the inherent trials and tribulations or stressors or difficulties of being a black woman, both in society in general, and even in the black community. And I’m always wanting to learn and ask questions to me more about that. And so, I think of MUCH Woman, I think you’re a perfect fit for that. And some thoughts I have in each of the letters, measured, I think in terms of what you said, but also learning, especially as women—well, I guess men, too, but we’re talking about women—the use of traditional categories to be assertive, sometimes boldly assertive, but not aggressive, and, you know, in an offensive, I would even say sinful way, or passive, or passive aggressive, but to be assertive in setting limits, and confronting, and challenging, and expressing your needs and wants, whatever the case is. I think of that in addition to what you said about measured. Because I think to be assertive is a measured way of being.

When I think of unafraid—and I’d like what Dr. Jamerson said about that in her interview—but I would add a phrase, a young client told me years ago that I’ll never forget, she was crying with me, and she said—her family was really giving a hard time about not wanting to be a part of the family business. This is many years ago. And she said, “Dr. Humphrey,” she just wept and said, “I just want to be unapologetically me.”

And she just meant, have her own identity, her own self. She wasn’t talking about doing wild, crazy stuff that was hurtful to herself or others. And that really stuck with me. And actually, my wife and I ran into her about a year ago at a restaurant, and she was with her husband and young child, and she came to the table and said, “Do you remember me?” I said, “I absolutely do.” And so, she’s doing very well.

Anyway, I think about being unapologetically you. And by that, I mean, you are uniquely—and I’m talking to you, but all people, all MUCH Women—are uniquely created in the image of God. You start with genetics, but God uniquely created you, in that he calls you—and touched upon this earlier—to be like Jesus, but in a CortneyJo kind of way, or anyone’s watching this broadcast right now. So, I think to be unafraid to be unapologetically you and that doesn’t mean it’s all about me, and I’m stomping on people. It just means this is who I am.

CortneyJo: Yes.

Brian: Captivating, I will share something. This isn’t my notes, but I was praying this morning, and this came to mind, and I don’t know if I’ve ever said this to you. I’ve been doing this work since the ’80s. I’ve been in private practice since ’91, and I think one of the saddest things—I’d actually say maybe the saddest thing that I’ve heard consistently over the years, and I want to say… it’s not the saddest thing. I mean, trauma, abandonment, abuse, neglect, and deep betrayal, those are the saddest things that I talk about with people, men and women, but I think as something that’s been, sort of, an ongoing stream of low-level sadness that I’ve dealt with is women and their bodies.

And it may sound kind of funny when I say that, but I want to clarify how women—my male clients hardly ever mention their looks, their face, their physique. My female clients will regularly refer negatively to their face or their build, and it just breaks my heart. I think there’s a lot of sexism there, a lot of misogyny, and I just—it breaks my heart because of this, the pressure we put on women to look a certain way. And I’ve even heard that women, for the most part, dress more for other women than they do for men, and that’s just sadness there for me. But so I think of captivating, you know, not all women may be captivating the way Hollywood defines an outward appearance of captivating, but I think a soul can be captivating.

And regardless of how captivating a person might be by Hollywood standards on the outside, that a woman’s soul can spiritually be captivating to all people here. I think of Mother Teresa, who by worldly standards, wouldn’t be on the front of Vogue magazine or something, but her character just drew many women to her, and we learned so much from her.

And heroic, I want to share something that anyone has heard my sermons, or been in my class, or my family has heard this a million times, or clients have heard this, you know, my favorite teacher, I mentioned Dallas Willard, he used to say, “When you’re a Christian, you’re part of the kingdom of God, and you’re given a sub-kingdom or sub-queendom, your area of influence.” So, for you, it’s mainly your two wonderful children, and your mother, and other relatives, your close friends, people you work with and serve. That’s your area of influence. I don’t know your mother, I don’t influence your coworkers or your friendgirls. You do.

And you know, my main area of influence would be my family, my friends, the people in my church, my clients, my coworkers. And God takes that very seriously. Jesus says, “He’s the light of the world,” but he says in Matthew 5, “You’re also a light.” And so, to be heroic is to take seriously, I matter, I have a role to play, and you know, and God’s wanting to work with me. You know, when Paul says we are, “God’s coworkers,” the Greek word is synergos, which we get the word synergism.

God synergistically wants us to work with him. He wants us to work with him synergistically to affect change in seeking first the kingdom of God with him. So, I think that’s heroic for each woman to do in her area of influence or domain of influence.

CortneyJo: Brian, that was beautiful. Wow, thank you. And I do want to let everybody know that was my first time ever hearing you share that. Thank you so much.

Brian: You’re welcome.

CortneyJo: That was amazing. I’m going to be listening back to that. I’m going to keep rewinding that part [laugh] when I listen to it. Well… wow. That was really good. Thank you so much. You’ve shared so many wonderful stories about the women in your life, the wonderful women in your life. Can you talk about how these incredible women, your wife, your daughter, your two daughter-in-laws, how do they embody the MUCH Woman philosophy?

Brian: This is the first time I felt like crying. I definitely married up. My wife is one of the most amazing people, really the most amazing person I’ve ever met. And she’s amazing. I mean, she’s wonderful, she’s beautiful, she’s bright, she’s funny, she puts up with me, and she is a MUCH Woman, and I’m so blessed and honored to be married to her.

And I have a wonderful daughter, and I have two wonderful daughters-in-law. And in terms of the MUCH Woman measurement or titles, they, I think they’re all assertive with themselves with me and others and their needs and wants and such, in a way that I find very winsome and very, very appropriate and strong. In terms of, unafraid, they have this sort of, this is me quality, like the song “This is Me” from the movie, The Greatest Showman. This is who I am, but it’s not in a narcissistic or self-centered or selfish way. I wouldn’t use those words to describe them at all, those negative words.

They’re all four are quite different, in my opinion. You know, I mentioned they’re all—I would say they’re all strong. One of them is very strong physically, too, and she knows who she is. But they’re strong in character. And they all… I see a lot of Jesus in each of them, but different qualities, in different qualities that he has.

And they’re captivating. They pull me in. Their souls pull me in. I love to be with each of them in a group or one-on-one, and I cherish getting to know them and being able to be their husband, and father, and father-in-law. And heroic, I see how they affect others with their goodness, especially other women and their friendgirls.

And my wife’s very involved in a well-known ministry, Christian ministry, and just to watch her when she speaks, or to help set up things, or whatever, I marvel every time about how amazing she is and how skilled, and talented, and absolutely delightful, and captivating. So, I am very blessed to get to know those women.

CortneyJo: Brian, thank you so much for sharing. That was just so beautiful, just to even hear a man be able to articulate such kindness towards the women in his life. What a gift. And thank you for doing that. Thank you for loving them like you do, and they are so blessed to have you in their lives. [tearfully] Oh.

So, we’re coming to a close, and this has just been so amazing, and I really pray that people, women, men, are really encouraged by this episode. Brian, you have a couple other podcasts out there. Is it okay if we link those—

Brian: Sure, sure.

CortneyJo: —to our show so that they can learn more? I really want people to hear how you share about the Four S’s, and you talk about parenting, and you just have a lot of great and great wealth of knowledge and wisdom that I feel like so many people can learn from. And so, thank you for allowing us to link that. We’ll link those links in our show notes. So again, I am so honored that you were here today, and I’m so grateful for these past three years, all of the guidance, and the support, and the care and just for being there for me as needed, you know, as we move forward.

Brian, your love and your kindness have been exactly what I’ve needed in this season of my life, and I thank you for who you are and for your faithful obedience to Christ, both in your personal life and in the way that you serve others. I love you.

Brian: Back at you, girl [laugh].

CortneyJo: Thank you. So listeners, we really appreciate you listening today. Remember, you can find out everything about this episode and other episodes, the blog, everything we’re doing with MUCH Woman Ministries at muchwoman.com. See you next time.

CortneyJo: Stay updated with the latest episodes of the podcast at muchwoman.com, and tune in on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever fine podcasts are available. We look forward to seeing you next time.

CortneyJo Sandidge
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